Johnson Reel Collectors Assn. (J.R.C.A.) since 10/10/14

Johnson Citation Models - The over/under Spinning Reel => Model 110A (1958-1962) => Topic started by: salmonfishing on February 02, 2017, 11:38:55 AM

Title: 110-A picture
Post by: salmonfishing on February 02, 2017, 11:38:55 AM
Citation 110-A picture
Title: Citation 110A by "salmonfishing"
Post by: AL on February 02, 2017, 11:39:59 AM
Does anyone know for certain if Citation Model 110-A reels only had gray frames or could they have possibly had a black frame? I have seen one with a black frame but wonder if it is original with the black. Thanks
Title: Re: Citation 110A Posted by "salmonfishing"
Post by: AL on February 02, 2017, 11:43:28 AM
Reply by OCAUTO: Not to be picky but I cannot find a 110-A are you sure it is not a 110A?
 Also, some of the catalog pictures seem to show the foot as gray but cannot tell for sure. Spray paint can make gray black real easy.
 Today at 11:14:03 AM


Title: Re: 110-A picture
Post by: Huckster37 on February 03, 2017, 05:59:05 PM
Here are pictures of the only 110-A that I have. It's in rough condition, I tried to clean it up a bit before I took the pictures. Notice this one has a black frame, but that doesn't mean its original (Frankenreel). It has the beveled gears and the side plates seem to be dark purple in color. Bought it at a yard sale and have no idea if all the parts are original.
I have a 110-A box without reel, the picture on it has a gray frame.
Title: Re: 110-A picture
Post by: Huckster37 on April 09, 2017, 03:57:09 PM
I acquired another 110-A and thought I would compare them. There is a 110A & a 110-A. I don't have a 110A yet, but I have seen pictures the 110-A has the bait click and the text on the side plate is different. The main difference in the two 110-A's I have is the reel body. The one on the left has a grey textured back and foot, the one on the right has smooth black back and foot. The one on the right has made in the USA on the bottom of the foot the one on the left doesn't. If you look at the face of these two you'll notice extra slots cut into the right one. The inserts that (can't remember what it called) goes through the body that the drive shaft turns in are different also, the one on the left appears to be brass the one on the right isn't. the right one has a slot for a spool clip and a spool clip is on this reel. I looked at the schematics and this reel should not have a spool clip. Now the tiny engraving in the face, I had to get my magnifying glass out for this. The one on the left has a hollow arrow with a K in it and what may be a 1 next to it. The one on the right is the shape on Minnesota with a T on top of a C in it and far to the left the numeral 1. The one on the left has black side plates and the one on the right has dark purple side plates. I know this is a lot of useless information, but thought I would make a record of it anyway. Besides that I didn't buy these reels new so this may not even be how they came out of the factory.
Title: Re: 110-A picture
Post by: salmonfishing on April 09, 2017, 05:12:18 PM
Dennis, you really do tear them apart which is great! I am afraid if I go that far, I will screw something up. I also have both a black and grey frame 110-A. I will look at them over the next day or so and see if they mirror what you found. I have a couple of 110A reels that are both grey frames. I might look at them as well to compare. FYI, not on a reel but I got some 110-A side plates a while back just because the color was unusual. The side with the model number appears to be purple in color also. You have to hold it just right in the light to see the purple hue. I kind of wonder if it just isn't some kind of fading of the black paint?
Chuck
Title: Re: 110-A picture
Post by: Huckster37 on April 09, 2017, 07:50:38 PM
That could be, I called it dark purple but I had to take pictures from several different angles to get the purple to show up. Just now looking at my 110B's, I have six black frames five smooth and one textured and one with a grey textured back. I've got the grey one and one of the black ones apart to clean will post pictures in a few days.
Title: Re: 110-A picture
Post by: Skip Smith on April 09, 2017, 08:37:48 PM
One thing I've noticed about the Citations with the grey crinkle-finished bodies is the "stem" between the body and the foot is shorter.  Those reels can't be attached to many rods using the "skip and screw" attachment method, because of insufficient clearance between the front cover and the reel foot.  Those grey-finished Citations can only be used on certain styles of rod.  That's why I avoid 'em.
Title: Re: 110-A picture
Post by: salmonfishing on April 10, 2017, 08:31:22 AM
Dennis, here is my "purple" colored side plate compared to a "normal" black one. It has the same hue as yours and also has that hue on the inside of it like yours. So now I am thinking instead of faded black paint, they maybe just got a bad batch of black that had this purple hue in it for some reason (due to mixing?). I can't imagine they would have intentionally used a purple color.
Title: Re: 110-A picture
Post by: salmonfishing on April 10, 2017, 01:02:25 PM
Here is to more head scratching. I broke down my grey and black frame 110-A reels to see how they compare to Dennis’. My grey frame matches Dennis’ grey frame exactly (grey textured frame etc.). However my black frame 110-A is both the same and different.  This black frame 110-A is what originally prompted my question above back in Feb. Mine does have smooth black paint and does have the extra slots. There is a reason for those slots by the way. As Johnson progressed in its manufacturing, it started putting tabs on the flat side of the  side plate that fits up against the frame. Only the side plate with the holes for inserting the mounting screws has the tab that fits into the frame slot. The reason the opposite side plate doesn't have a tab is because it has to be inserted straight into the frame because of the tubes sticking out. The reason for the slot on both sides in the frame is sometimes the mounting screws are on the crank side plate and some times they are on the name side plate. On my black frame, the screws are on the crank side plate so that is where the tab is as you can see in the picture. My black frame has the brass bushing for the drive shaft but does have the spool retaining clip. I also have two model 110A (without the dash) grey frame reels and looked at them to see if they had the retaining clip. They both do. I will post a breakdown of one of them later. Another major difference is the frame “stem” Skip refers to above. While it appears Dennis’ black fame has the longer stem, my black frame has the shorter stem matching the grey frame in length. Looking inside my black frame, rather than the Minnesota state outline, it has the arrow with a K on the inside but to the left has a large “2”. Mine does not have made in the USA stamped on the bottom and the push button is sculptured rather than flat. Finally while it looks like the gears on my black frame appear to be of a different material than on the grey, they are also straight sided rather than beveled.
Title: Re: 110-A picture
Post by: Skip Smith on April 10, 2017, 03:25:09 PM
I've always been under the impression that the side plates on 100's and 110's were anodized, like the front cover.  Is that not the case?
Title: Re: 110-A picture
Post by: salmonfishing on April 10, 2017, 03:33:28 PM
Skip, how do you tell if they are anodized or not? I would have no idea how to know one way or the other.
Chuck
Title: Re: 110-A picture
Post by: Skip Smith on April 10, 2017, 06:26:15 PM
Chuck, we're paddling the same canoe here, buddy!  I based my assumption on the color match between the side plates and the front covers.  Of course, we're both aware of the interchangibility (sp?) of parts over the 24-year production run of those reels.  If those side plates were, in fact, painted, I'm more than willing to stand corrected and be grateful for the education!
Title: Re: 110-A picture
Post by: AL on April 12, 2017, 10:25:46 PM
All you need is an ohmmeter or a multi-meter set on the ohms scale, or even an automotive electrical conductivity tester available at your local auto parts store. Just touch the parts in any two places with the two leads, just far enough apart that they won't touch each other. A non-anodized surface will read about 0 ohms or light the test light of the conductivity tester. An anodized surface will show essentially infinite ohms, or of course will not allow the test light to light. Don't put the leads on sharp edges, or you might get a light on an anodized part. If you think there is a slight amount of anodize on a part, hold one lead on a sharp edge, and try to scratch a flat surface with the other. You can sometimes scratch through a very thin coating.
Title: Re: 110-A picture
Post by: salmonfishing on April 17, 2017, 06:38:49 AM
When cleaning an early Princess 100-A reel that I have, I noticed some pink paint on the brass tubes mounted on the handle side plate which I thought was curious. I also noticed that on the part of the drag metal plate that was under the black drag dial button, the color was pinker and not as faded as the portion exposed .  So since I have an ohmmeter, I thought I would check for anodization based on Al’s directions above on both side plates, the front cover and the numbered drag plate by checking the uncolored inside portion of all of them. In the pictures you can see on the cover, the name side plate, and the drag plate, the ohmmeter measure “ 0”. That occurred no matter where I touched on the inside of these pieces. I am not an expert on anodization so don’t know if you can anodize just one side and not the other but at least  the insides of these three pieces were not anodized. On the handle/crank side plate insides however, a different story. Even though there was no color added, anywhere I touched, I received no “0” reading suggesting it was anodized. When I tried on the edge, I did get an “0” reading which Al advises can happen on an anodized piece. So not sure why one piece was anodized and not the other  three but a fun test.
Title: Re: 110-A picture
Post by: AL on April 17, 2017, 08:23:22 PM
As it appears to be a Princess evidenced by pink, I would suggest that it would/should be a 100 AP.  Did they make a Princess that was not marked as AP or BP?
Title: Re: 110-A picture
Post by: salmonfishing on April 18, 2017, 06:19:03 AM
Al, yes I do think they did make the very first Princess model which was not marked as AP or BP. I posted pics of my 100-A Princess under the Princess board. Also, if you look at the reel pictures posted in the gallery, you can see Matt W. a few years back posted a picture also of a 100-A Princess that looks like mine except his is in better shape. From what I have seen in pictures and actual reels, I really think Johnson started selling Princess reels by making a Century 100-A all pink and putting the name  "Princess" on the front cover to get it out on the market. I don't think they did this for very long however.Then I think they they switched to putting the name on the side plate on AP models. I think maybe they kept the Princess name on the front cover also on the AP model at the start but quickly took it off and just left the front cover plain. While I have seen a few of these Princess 100-A reels come up on Ebay, they are few in number with the AP and BP models being more prevalent in the listings. I will post pictures of my AP and BP models on the Princess site in the near future.
Title: Re: 110-A picture
Post by: GaryWB on January 14, 2019, 12:26:25 PM
Has anyone ever figured which came first, the 110-A or 110A and what the production years were for the 110-A?


Gary
Title: Re: 110-A picture
Post by: AL on January 14, 2019, 01:17:41 PM
I agree on both counts.  Good job.....isn't research fun?
Title: Re: 110-A picture
Post by: salmonfishing on January 14, 2019, 02:16:09 PM
Gary,
In my humble opinion, I believe the 110-A was prior to the 110A. I have both a gray and black frame 110-A. In my pics you can see that both 110-A reels have a side clicker and block letters replicating how the 110 was designed. On the 110A, Johnson removed the side clicker and went to cursive lettering. That also appears to correlate with the changes on a 100 to 100-A to 100A which I have also include pics of. Don't know the years on the -A models but am guessing it was short lived. The oldest catalog I have seen is from 1959 and shows the 110A.
Chuck
Title: Re: 110-A picture
Post by: GaryWB on January 14, 2019, 06:39:03 PM
Thank you Chuck
Title: Re: 110-A picture
Post by: 409davidb on August 25, 2020, 11:17:38 AM
I picked this up a while back meaning to post it here. This could possibly help validate the production sequence? Nevertheless, it's a very cool vintage advertising piece!
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